A space to post my thoughts and musings about anything. This includes but is not limited to community, politics, current events, relationships, LGBTQ+ issues, favorite things, and stuff that would make your dead relatives blush. I am not afraid to go there, as some can attest.

October 02, 2008

Biden vs Palin

EDITORS NOTE: This is literally what I wrote, no changes have been made to the content. Yes, I know it is not grammatically correct, but it happens.

The debate is on, lets see what happens.

9:02 - I see the moderator is still the same, despite some claims of a conflict of interest.

9:03 - Introductions, Palin is being really polite, asking if she can call Sen Biden "Joe."

Q1: is the bailout the worst or best of Washington?

Biden: Worst economic policies for the last 8 years, wall street was running wild, now we see evidence of this. Congress is in a difficult spot, Obama out 4 criteria, oversight, help homeowners, treat taxpayers like investors, don't let the CEO's benefit from the rescue plan. The fund. disagreement between McP and ObB is that McP favors the wealthy more than the middle class.

Palin: Go to any soccer game and ask any parent about the economy, and they will have fear in their voice, fear of how to send kids to college and such. McCain represents reform, pushed for Fannie and Freddie reform, but others wouldnt. There will be greater oversight, he was being bipartisan this week.

Q2: How to shrink polarization?

Biden: I have been able to reach across the aisle. Until 2 weeks ago, Mc said that fund. of econ. was still sound. then reversed his position 2 hrs later to say there was a crisis.

Palin: Mc referring to american workforce when he said that. I have a track record of reform as Gov. and puts politics aside to get job done. Ob voted with his party 96% of time. I respect Bidens years, but americans want change, so send the maverick Mc

Q3: Who at fault for subprime lending?

Palin: Predatory lenders were problem, greed and corruption on wall street. We needs to stand up and demand oversight so this never happens again. Lets not get ourselves in debt, don't live outside of means. Not all american's fault economy sucks, but this is a learning experience.

Biden: 2 yr ago Obama warned of subprime problems, Mc said he was surprised to hear of a problem. Mc thought answer was to deregulate so wall st went wild. Obama wanted to reinstate regs. Mc called for more deregulation at least 20 times in same period, now wants to do the same for health industry. Gas prices are now out of control, talked to person who has no money to completely fill a tank of gas.

Palin: Yes Biden, we need money, but you and obama voted to increase taxes 94 times. Not needed to create jobs, govt needs to learn to be more efficient, and we need tax relief.

Biden: Mc voted the same way at Ob with raising taxes, but also supported deregulation

Palin: I am going to talk straight, reduced taxes as mayor, Mc has pushed for rules and regulations

Q4: Biden has proposed tax increase on 250k+ earners, why is this not class war?

Biden: Where I come from, called fairness. Mid class is huge, but they dont get tax breaks like the 250k earners. Mid class economic engine of america, Mc wants to add 350B in new tax cuts to rich and industry, but nothing to mid class. Not fair to them. The rich will pay no more than they did under Reagan

Palin: Ob plan forgets about small businesses and so they will be unable to hire. Asking for higher taxes is not patriotic. Lessen tax burden on private sector and economy will grow. Mc health care plan, $5000 tax credit for families to purchase insurance, no cost to govt, unlike Ob plan. Erase line between states to foster competition in health plans.

Biden: Mc wants to give exxon 400 mil tax break. 95% of small biz make less than 250K. Health care plan by Mc, 5000 credit will be created by taxing your employer health benefits dollars, 20 million people are dropped from plans because of this, total bridge to nowhere!

Q5: What promises have you been made that you cant keep

Biden: will have to slow down foreign assistance, dont go forward with mc tax breaks, wont support 300b tax cut for corp amer and wealthy, and not 400m tax break for exxon. We cannot slow up on education, we must have it, and not slow up on health care. Bottom line, eliminate current wasteful spending, including 100b tax dodge by taking post office box offshore, unpatriotic!

Palin: Mc doesn't tell something to one group, but something else to another group. Ob voted for 2005 energy plan, which gave oil companies tax breaks. I had to take on those oil companies as gov and say no, you cant have this. Had to undo obama's damage. there is nothing i will take off the table in terms of promises now, since I havent been able to say much

Biden: energy bill had real money for alt energy. On other tax breaks for oil, ob voted against, mc voted for. Mc will not support windfall profit tax, and wants to give oil companies more tax breaks, though palin did it as gov.

Q6: Would you have supported bankruptcy bill that made it harder to declare it?

Palin: Things have changed, now we see more corruption. Mc should be thanked for being bipartisan and getting ppl to table to work on fixing this problem.

Biden: Ob and I disagreed on how to vote for this, but Ob did point out subprime mess was coming. With bankruptcy now, we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to realign peoples loans, including principal. Mc may not be supporting this.

Palin: want to talk about record on energy. Consider need to allow US to become energy independent, we have resources, but east coast politicians wont allow us to touch it! Independence is key to americas future

Q7: What is true and false of climate change?

Palin: Alaska sees a lot of the impacts of climate change. Some are manmade, some are cyclical temp changes, not going to argue the cause, but we must argue to get solutions in place. As gov, created cabinet to research climate change, must reduce emissions worldwide, mc supports that, can't let other countries dump more pollutants, must be more alt energy.

Biden: If you dont understand the cause, you cant find a solution! we consumer 25% of oil, mc votes against alt energy research. ob wants to invest in clean coal and safe nuclear, along with other alt energy. China is building dirty coal plants we should research clean coal and share it with world. Repubs just want to drill everywhere, but it will take 10 years to see any results.

Palin: Yes mc supports drilling, but thats what americans want, especially in my state. Ob has said no to domestic solutions to produce energy, even though offshore drilling is safe. I support caps on carbon emissions

Biden: I supported clean coal tech for 25 years, and I support caps. how do we defeat global warming if we are drilling for more oil. Mc voted against alt energy 25 times.

Q8: support same sex benefits?

Biden: I support same sex couple benefits, and so does O. Const says that we should provide those benefits to couples, medical, property, and such.

Palin: I would unless it redefines marriage. I am tolerant and have diverse family, some might not agree with me, no one would propose prohibiting rights in administration. I think marriage is between one man and one woman.

Biden: Ob and I do not support gay marriage, but there should be no distinction legally between hetero and homo couples.

Q9: both have sons in Iraq, what should the plan in Iraq be?

Palin: I want to see a clear exit strategy, the surge was great idea and mc supported it, but ob didnt. ob didnt support funding troops. I oppose an early withdrawl, the surge is working, now can put troops in afghanistan, getting closer to victory over al quaeda.

Biden: ob has clear plan, hand more control to iraqis and draw down troops, maliki and bush doing that now. Mc also voted against funding troops as well, since there was a timeline. Ob feels there should be a timeline to draw down and shift responsiblity to iraqis, especially because they have a surplus now and we are in econ crisis. We will end this war, mc wont.

Palin: Ob plan is white flag, he can't admit the surge is working, but it is. biden supported mc for a while, and was against ob until he became vp candidate. ob voted against funding troops

Biden: mc also did not vote to fund troops! Mc and Cheney said sunnis and shiites would get along and oil would pay for war, but they were wrong, I was warning them against this

Q10: nuclear iran vs unstable pakistan

Biden: Pakistan already has nukes, that's bad, iran getting nukes would also be destabilizing. Both dangerous. My problem with Mc's plan is that it focuses on iraq, we should focus on afghanistan, al quaeda is there and if they attack us again, it will be planned from there. we need to stabilize afghan govt.

Palin: Central in war on terror is in iraq, patreus said so. Nucular iran is awful, they should not get hands on weapons. Iran's leader said he wants to attack israel, he really should not get nucular weapons. Ob would meet with ahmedinajad and kim jong il without preconditions, they should not be met with

Q11: secs of state have all recommended engaging in some enemies

Palin: Mc would engage in diplomacy, but some people hate us so bad, that they need to do certain things before we meet with them. diplomacy is hard, we must have allies to help us out.

Biden: not true about ob. Mc doesnt realize that ahmedinjahd does not control the security apparatus of iran. Friends and allies have been advocating diplomacy, but mc said wont agree to sit down. took bush 5 years before he would finally engage in diplomacy. Mc said as rec as few wks ago he wouldnt sit with pres of spain, a NATO ally.

Q12: What has admin done right/wrong with Israeli palestinian conflict.

Palin: 2 state solution is a good plan, israel great ally, we must protect them and not allow a second holocaust. We must continue to work to create a peace agreement, and it will happen but we must commit, and mc will.

Biden: I have been the best friend to israel, would not join Ob if he wasnt as passionate. Current admin has been an abject failure, rice has tried, but she waited until it was too late. We kicked hez out of lebanon, ob and I rec get nato in to prevent vacuum, they didnt do it, now hez is back. We will change this by giving true diplomacy instead of insisting on failed policies.

Palin: Glad we both love israel. There have been huge blunders by admin, but for a ticket that wants to make change, too much finger pointing back. Mc admin will learn from current mistakes, and move forward and remove partisanship and put the people first, and change is coming

Biden: Past is prologue, how much is mc's plan going to be different from bush's, I haven't heard how it is different, his policies seem to be the same. Ob's admin will make change!

Q13: what is the trigger to using nukes?

Palin: Nucular weapons is used as deterrant, it would be the end all if we used them. We need to pressure rogue states such as n korea economically with our allies so that they and Iran cannot proliferate. Surge needs to be implemented in Afghan.

biden: general in afghan said the surge principles will not work if we use iraq style. we need more troops and govt bulding, more money for infrastructure. spent more money in 3 weeks on iraq than we have spent in 7 years in afghanistan, this is not good. Mc voted against the nuclear test ban treaty, including allowing foreign inspections. Ob reached across the aisle when he came in and put together legislation to help stop nuclear proliferation.

Palin: general did not definitely say the surge would not work. rebuilding will work in afghanistan.

Biden: the general did say that, ob and I and others have been calling for more afghan money, but mc isn't because he thinks its already succeeded. 3 weeks iraq vs 7 yrs afghanistan, that will change in ob admin.

Q14: argued for intervention in the past, can america take it

Biden: I have advocated when others have not, like in bosnia, mc wouldnt but came around later. said it wouldnt be stable, but now it is. I gave pres power to deal with iraq, but not to go to war, but to continue to buld support and use sanctions to control iraq. we can lead to fix darfur, but we need to actually do it.

Palin: I am a washington outsider, I dont get that you voted for it, but are now against it, be straight about why you voted for it. I agree with biden on darfur. I found out alaska had some money in sudan, and we are working to divest from that.

Q15: what is the line on when to go in

Biden: We should have a line, BTW, I never supported mc strategy on iraq. Mc was in lockstep with cheney.

Palin: Say what you want, but mc does know how to win a war, he knows what evil is, he knows to learn from blunders, he knows how to listen to commanders

Q16: cliche about vp being heartbeat away from president, how would your pres admin be different from your candidates policy

Biden: it would be a tragedy if that happened, but I would continue to carry out ob policies, fund education, end iraq war, help middle class, find bin laden, get rid of al queada, every thing obama wants I would follow through on. This is an importanbt election, i would follow through because you voted him in, not me

Palin: it would be a tragedy as well, yes we disagree, but he respects my opinions. I would continue his good work, put govt back on side of people, get rid of greed and corruption, need reality of wasilla main st brought to washington so that they realize whats going on.

Biden: you walk in and talk to anyone, and ask what they think of economy, then ask when mc hasnt supported bush, and he hasnt. Mid class gotten short end of stick, wealthy has gotten it all, we will change it.

Palin: biden is pointing backwards, but we definitely need to support education, i come from house full of teachers. we must increase stadards, put more into no child left behind. I am concerned about education.

Q17: what is the VP worth to you?

Palin: We had tried to make jokes about it, but we preside over the senate, would like to have the constitution grant more powers to us. We should support the president, and the president should use our strengths

Biden: I have history of getting things done, and I would be there to help advise him, but it is up to him, he is the pres, not me. I look forward to working with ob to bring about change in US

Q18: Does const not hold much sway over exec branch like cheney thinks?

Palin: I agree with cheney, we have flexibility to do what needs to be done to accomplish our goals

Biden: cheney has been most dangerous VP, article I of const defines VP powers. Primary role to support Pres, give best judgement when pres asks, and preside over senate when needed. Is tie-breaker vote, nothing more.

Q19: achille's heel as a candidate?

Palin: My strengths are me being mayor, gov, and being connected to heartland america since I am a married mom who has to deal with the same issues. I have same worldview as mc that america is the beacon of hope. we represent perfect ideal in the world, we can put it to good use. we are a good ticket

Biden: I am not going to change, I am who I am, including passionate. I have a record of change, and so does Ob, and will put it against Mc. He voted against crime bill, I didn't. I know what it is like to be a single dad, I know how hard it is when you don't have a job and have to send kids to live with relatives while I find work. I understand what its like to raise kids, despite being a man. We are looking for help and change, not more of the same

Palin: Mc has been a maverick and has taken shots for being so, even from his own party. I have been that way too. He has very diverse supporters, and they are all coming together to back Mc during these tumultuous times, including the war and econ crisis. Mc is leader of change

Biden: Mc has not been maverick on things that matter, such as bush's budget, he has voted with bush. He voted against SCHIP coverage for 3.6 mil children. Not been maverick on the war. Mc voted against heating oil relief

Q20: What is a single issue where you had to change a long held view?

Biden: I had the view that a vp candidate needed to be judicial, not committed a crime of moral terpitude. I had to change my view to also consider judicial views.

Palin: There were some things that I could have vetoed but didnt even if I didnt totally agree with it. We will bring both sides together.

Q21: How do you change the tone in DC?

Biden: I have been able to work across the aisle on controversial issues. I have never questioned the motives of my colleagues, even if I dont agree with them. Ob and I will continue that philosiphy.

Palin: At the end of the day, if we are working together on something good. our ticket will help the infrastructure, and energy independence, and lowers taxes and helps the economy. Ob is the opposite.


Palin: Thank you to everyone. I enjoyed this, and was glad to be able to answer questions unfiltered. Mc and I are going to fight for all americans on all issues. We have to fight for and protect freedom or else we will lose it. Mc is the only one who has fought for that.

Biden: This is the most important election, we are in a very deep hole. there is a need for fundamental change, ob and I will measure how we are doing not by doing more deregulation or giving tax breaks, but on whether someone can go to college, pay their mortgage, or if theyre sent overseas for the military, they get the job done and are taken care of in the end. Growing up, all us kids were told that if we worked hard, we would be rewarded in america. Ob is ready to be the next president of the US.

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